[ Note : as often as it is claimed that LHBF, is 'derived' from a 'teaching' verse accredited to famous,
real-life sage Chen Tuan [Po];
no one has ever named
this exercise as 陳摶內家
Chen2 Tuan2 nei4 jia2, Chen's internal style;
nor as 陳摶內功 Chen2 Tuan2
nei4 gong2, Chen's internal exercise;
nor as 水浪拳 water-wave
nor tuan2 shui3 lang4 zhang3 浪水摶掌, roll-around in the hand [ tuan2, zhuan1 ] water wave palm.
Nor just 浪掌 zhuan 1 zhang3.
Noteworthy in this regard, is that an earlier name for 'bagua' palms was 轉掌, Zhuan3 Zhang3 [
[ circle ] palm; 轉動
[转动] zhuǎn3 dòng4, turn ]; similar in sound only. ]
Disambiguous Names, Spellings :
An internet search for the principles or forms of the exercise needs to consider the variations in spelling and the fact that
search programs are non-intelligent for these different ways, for example:
Liu He Ba Fa, Liu_He_ Ba_Fa, Liu-He Ba-Fa, Lu Ho Ba Fa,
Liu Ho Pa Fa, Liu_Ho_ Pa_ Fa, Lu Ho Pa Fa,
Hup Ba Fa, Lok_Hup Ba_Fa, Lok Hop Pat Fat,
liùhébāfǎquán [ pin yin ]
Yue-, Hua-Yu, Hua Yo-, Hwa Yue- 'Tai chi-pugalism.
Concepts : Water, 水 shui; spirit 神 shen.
The title waterspirit6x8 is a modernized way of naming, 6x8 refers to the principles:
water and spirit, also related :
Locations, Mountains : Hua-Yu, Hua-Yo,
Locations, Exercise : Hua-shan-boxing,
Hua-Yo-taichi, Hua-kung fu.
Personage : Chen [Bo] Tuan [
there exists no intrinsic or implied connection with 'Lao zi' a legendary iconic figure whom is often either given as a source
or given as influential; there is also no verifiable linkage between a supposed Chen [Bo] Tuan student: 'Fire Dragon' and
mythic later creator of 'tai chi' Chang San-feng.].
The 'mythic' source...Chen Tuan with LiuHeBaFa exercise is a misdirection; whereas either the [Chen] XiYi-sect...a
taoist group or from First Emperor of the Song..TaiZu..both are legitimate source points; each leads to later events. The
martial exercise of TaiZu, Tong Bei. 太祖通背拳 an innate-forced martial art which did
enter into Chen Village Boxing.
LiuHe BaFa : Six-harmony, Eight-methods; every
time I have asked both Sino-scholars or TCM practitioners,or Chinese
Philosophical Historians to explain this four word series, consistently, each has suggested that it is a Buddhist limerick due to the numerology and due to this use of Fa, methods. Overall, it
the intent was to associate the exercise with 'taoist' ideas, the name LHBF has failed to do this.
Ambiguous, Not Equivalent, similar and of interest :
There should be some compariaon with same or similar exercises which utilize the names LiuHe-boxing and BaFa-boxing.
LiuHe chuan 六合拳, Six harmony
BaFa chuan 八法拳, Eight Methods boxing
chuan 華山拳 Mt. Hua
Hua chuan 華拳 Chinese Boxing
Names Linked to LiuHe BaFa : Disambiguous
All of the various names associated with this boxing exercise arise from a historical context, at time simple, at times verbose,
and at times turning back to an older name, but reinterpreted within a modern context; this serpentine come-go-return of titles
is common. Water has been used as a symbolic metaphor for natural motion, innate 'wisdom' and 'tao' course way.
This can be addended with the concept of spirit, 神 shen, but seems to be have not clearly been understood. Swimming, 遊, you has been used recently [an likely earlier] but there does exist similar adjective use of swimming and there
does exist boxing styles dependent of this name.
The use of Hua-shan 華山 or Hua-yue 華嶽
only continues its alleged origins. LiuHe or BaFa have been applied to separate
boxing and qi gong systems; therefore this naming does not improve distinction. The more recent expansion of identifiers as
three-levels or twelve anima-forms, appears also in Tai-chi- boxing and similar IMA styles. The current trend is for
longer rather than briefer names.
Hua Yo =Hwa Yu 'central ideas' LiuHe BaFa
[ simplified Pin-yin ] ]
華嶽希夷門 Hua Yue Xi Yi Men Chen 'Xi-Yi sect'
Hua Yue Xi-Yi Men sect (+) Ideas of LiuHe BaFa
六合八法 拳 Liu He
Ba Fa 'fist' Boxing
三盤十二勢 San Pan
Shi Er Shi - 3 Divisions, 12 Spirits [3-levels and 12-animals]
Xin Yi Liu He Ba Fa San Pan Shi Er Shi
築基 Zhu Ji Finding the Foundation,
a name used as LHBF and also for the core Nanjing-66 form series; in principle this is acceptable, it is sometimes claimed
as the 'original' name, this is unproven [ it is also not required.]
Msr. Zhang Chang-xin a dual-trained YQ-LHBF student, one of the Four-Diamonds sent to Nanjing later called his 'matrixed form ' YQ-LHBF
: - zhu ji chuan, 築基拳
Names which should only be used if derived from the flowing
principle or to the style demonstrated to Sun Lu-tang and taught to his student Ho.
水拳 shui chuan, water boxing [ also a metaphor for Tao ]
水浪拳 shui3 lang4 quan2, water-wave boxing
噴水拳 water spray boxing
water boxing strike
水家拳 shui3 jia2 quan2, water 'school-style' sect boxing
Water boxing change
水神拳 shui shen chuan, water spirit boxing
you chuan, swimming boxing
崂山九水拳 Mt. Lao Shan nine water boxing
Addendum : Water Boxing
“Some people say that Liuhebafa was originally called Water Boxing. That info is copied and
pasted on many websites unfortunately, and seems to be only used for marketing of the style. That couldn't have been the original
name, as according to Chen Yi Ren that name was from a later generation practitioner named Wang
De Wei who changed the name of his own LHBF to Water Boxing.
: Name of Water Boxing / Fist,
"I have not taught that water fist means
that the the art may be manifested in 3 different states like water; I also have no idea who said this first or based on what
experience/authority/teaching/theoretical basis, but if it aids understanding then i guess its OK.
"In Chen YiRen's writing, he said that Wang De Wei ( of XianYang ) changed LHBF to water fist, later the art was passed to
a daoist Yuan-Rong, who practiced it as Yuan Tong Ba Fa ( 元通八法 ). Then LHBF was disseminated to people staying between Sichuan and ShaanXi; especially
among the people with surname Ye ( 叶 )
Li (李). Later
Yang Jing Qun of Fang Shang ( 房山杨景群 ) used
(this type of) Xin Yi Liu He, to treat the sick, and changed its name to 先天十二势.
so you see, actually LHBF have many names before; but Gm Chen's writing did stress that many passed
LHBF master were 心意正宗 (authentic
school of Xin Yi). [ Note: the Chinese characters do not translate to nor allude to xing-yi exercise; hearts' intent or central
ideas of genuine-correct school-sect is the correct translation.]
The practical aspect of Liuhe bafa as is related to combat has been called "Water
Boxing". This name was adopted by early generations who discovered the greater depths of the art. The common perception of
the name Water Boxing is that Liuhe bafa moves smoothly as if one were floating in water. This is a misconception however
and quite misleading from the true meaning. The actual concept of Water Boxing refers to the 3 States of Water; solid, liquid
and gas. This can hold many meanings but essentially refers to not only ones level of progression and ability in the style
but to their application of it as well. Moving against oncoming force and overpowering the opponent is an application of the
solid state, moving with oncoming force (different from yielding) is an application of the liquid state, and avoiding the
exchange of force all together is an application of the gas state. This water method is a very important practice of Liuhe
bafa and its knowledge and application show true depth in the internal arts. In short, Water Boxing is a stage or element
of Liuhebafa, not an alternative name nor a separate art.
NOTE : Author Khan Foxx, refers to water-boxing as having possible
5-states, which water does possesses.