Make your own free website on Tripod.com

WaterSpirit-6x8

Glossary

HOME
SITEMAP
TRANSLATE
Blogs
MySTORY
Teacher-Praise
Accolades-2
Teacher-Laments
Lamentations-2
Teacher- Friends
Teacher Anecdotes
PRODUCTS-Rx
CONTACT
Books-Private
Books-Pubs
Media-Video
SEARCH
LEGAL
NEXUS-Erg
Exchange-Basics
Exchange: CMC-LHBF
Exchange: LH8-LHBF
Exchange: Yi Quan
Training: Hun Yuan
Training: Walking
Training: Ball-rolling
Training: Ruler Std
Mind Tools
Princepts-Water
Teachings-Core
Teachings Added
NOTA Bene
NOTA Martial
NOTA Basics
NOTA Standing
NOTA History
NOTA Founder Wu Yi-hui
NOTA Nanjing Academy
NOTA Thesis
Thesis Crossovers
NOTA Medical
NOTA Longevity
NOTA Felix
NOTA Context
NAMES: LHBF-System
NAMES: Phonetics
NAMES Forms
NAMES Forms-96
NAMES Search
NAMES: Styles
NAMES History
NAME-Numerics
NAMES-Glossary
History-Plexus
Plexus-Plus Chen Tuan
History-Lineages
History-Teachers
History- Maps
Exercises Exchanged
Exercises Related
Glossary of Concepts

Language Tools : Resources +References :

Language Tools     Etymology Classification Chinese

Wikipedia    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_He_Ba_Fa 
Dictionary    
http://www.blueray.com/dictionary/
Symbols      http://www.symbols.com/
Dictionary Gestures, Signs, Body Language Cues    http://members.aol.com/nonverbal2/diction1.htm

[ Note : as often as it is claimed that LHBF, is 'derived' from a 'teaching' verse accredited to famous, real-life sage Chen Tuan [Po]; 
no one has ever named this exercise as 陳摶內家 Chen2 Tuan2 nei4 jia2, Chen's internal style; 
 nor as  陳摶內功 Chen2 Tuan2 nei4 gong2, Chen's internal exercise; 
 nor as  水浪拳 water-wave boxing, 
 nor tuan2 shui3 lang4 zhang3  浪水摶掌, roll-around in the hand [ tuan2, zhuan1 ] water wave palm. 
 Nor just  zhuan 1 zhang3. 
  Noteworthy in this regard, is that an earlier name for 'bagua' palms was , Zhuan3 Zhang3  [ Turning  [ circle ] palm; 轉動 [转动] zhuǎn3 dng4, turn ]; similar in sound only. ]

Disambiguous Names, Spellings :

Note: An internet search for the principles or forms of the exercise needs to consider the variations in spelling and the fact that search programs are non-intelligent for these different ways, for example:

Chinese :

Transliterations :

Translation :

六合

 

八法

LiuHeBaFa, Liu He Ba Fa, Liu_He_ Ba_Fa, Liu-He Ba-Fa, Lu Ho Ba Fa,

LHBF, LHPF, 6x8-boxing

LiuHoPaFa, Liu Ho Pa Fa, Liu_Ho_ Pa_ Fa, Lu Ho Pa Fa,

Lok Hup Ba Fa, Lok_Hup Ba_Fa, Lok Hop Pat Fat,

lihbāfǎqun [ pin yin ]

6-hamony, ...concordance

8-methods

...regulations

-pugalism

華嶽

華山

Hua Yue-, Hua-Yu, Hua Yo-, Hwa Yue- 'Tai chi-pugalism.

Hua Shan

Resplendent... Pinnacle

Resplendent... Mountain

 

Philosophical Concepts : Water, shui; spirit shen.
 
The title waterspirit6x8 is a modernized way of naming, 6x8 refers to the principles: water and spirit, also related :

Locations, Mountains : Hua-Yu, Hua-Yo, Hwa-Yue,

Locations, Exercise : Hua-shan-boxing, Hua-Yo-taichi, Hua-kung fu.

Personage : Chen [Bo] Tuan [ there exists no intrinsic or implied connection with 'Lao zi' a legendary iconic figure whom is often either given as a source or given as influential; there is also no verifiable linkage between a supposed Chen [Bo] Tuan student: 'Fire Dragon' and mythic later creator of 'tai chi' Chang San-feng.].
   The 'mythic' source...Chen Tuan with LiuHeBaFa exercise is a misdirection; whereas either the [Chen] XiYi-sect...a  taoist group or from First Emperor of the Song..TaiZu..both are legitimate source points; each leads to later events. The martial exercise of TaiZu, Tong Bei. 太祖通背拳 an innate-forced martial art which did enter into Chen Village Boxing.

LiuHe BaFa : Six-harmony, Eight-methods; every time I have asked both Sino-scholars or TCM practitioners,or Chinese Philosophical Historians to explain this four word series, consistently, each has suggested that it is a Buddhist limerick due to the numerology and due to this use of Fa, methods. Overall, it the intent was to associate the exercise with 'taoist' ideas, the name LHBF has failed to do this.

Ambiguous, Not Equivalent, similar and of interest :

There should be some compariaon with same or similar exercises which utilize the names LiuHe-boxing and BaFa-boxing.

LiuHe chuan 六合拳, Six harmony [form-mind] boxing

BaFa chuan 八法拳, Eight Methods boxing

Hua shan chuan 華山Mt. Hua boxing

Hua chuan   Chinese Boxing

Names Linked to LiuHe BaFa : Disambiguous

六合:八法

  All of the various names associated with this boxing exercise arise from a historical context, at time simple, at times verbose, and at times turning back to an older name, but reinterpreted within a modern context; this serpentine come-go-return of titles is common. Water has been used as a symbolic metaphor for natural motion, innate 'wisdom' and 'tao' course way. 

  This can be addended with the concept of spirit, shen, but seems to be have not clearly been understood. Swimming, , you has been used recently [an likely earlier] but there does exist similar adjective use of swimming and there does exist boxing styles dependent of this name. 

  The use of Hua-shan 華山 or Hua-yue 華嶽 only continues its alleged origins. LiuHe or BaFa have been applied to separate boxing and qi gong systems; therefore this naming does not improve distinction. The more recent expansion of identifiers as three-levels or twelve anima-forms, appears also in Tai-chi- boxing and similar IMA styles. The current trend is for longer rather than briefer names.

華嶽心意六合八法拳 Hua Yo =Hwa Yu 'central ideas' LiuHe BaFa
 [ 华岳心意六合八法拳 [ simplified Pin-yin ] ]
華嶽希夷門 Hua Yue Xi Yi Men  Chen 'Xi-Yi sect'

華嶽希夷門 心意六合八法  Hua Yue Xi-Yi Men sect  (+) Ideas of LiuHe BaFa

六合八法 拳 Liu He Ba Fa 'fist'  Boxing

三盤十二勢 San Pan Shi Er Shi - 3 Divisions, 12 Spirits [3-levels and 12-animals]
六合八法三盤十二勢 Xin Yi Liu He Ba Fa San Pan Shi Er Shi

築基 Zhu Ji  Finding the Foundation, a name used as LHBF and also for the core Nanjing-66 form series;  in principle this is acceptable, it is sometimes claimed as the 'original' name, this is unproven [ it is also not required.]

Msr. Zhang Chang-xin a dual-trained YQ-LHBF student, one of the Four-Diamonds sent to Nanjing later called his 'matrixed form ' YQ-LHBF : - zhu ji chuan, 築基

 Names which should only be used if derived from the flowing principle or to the style demonstrated to Sun Lu-tang and taught to his student Ho.
 
水拳 shui chuan, water boxing [ also a metaphor for Tao ]
水浪拳 shui3 lang4 quan2, water-wave boxing
噴水拳 water spray boxing
水拳擊 water boxing strike
水家拳 shui3 jia2 quan2, water 'school-style' sect boxing
多方位水拳擊變化  Multidirectional Water boxing change
水神拳 shui shen chuan, water spirit boxing
遊拳 you chuan, swimming boxing
 
崂山九水拳  Mt. Lao Shan nine water boxing

Addendum : Water Boxing

Some people say that Liuhebafa was originally called Water Boxing. That info is copied and pasted on many websites unfortunately, and seems to be only used for marketing of the style. That couldn't have been the original name, as according to Chen Yi Ren that name was from a later generation practitioner named Wang De Wei who changed the name of his own LHBF to Water Boxing.

Re :  Name of Water Boxing / Fist,
     "I have not taught that water fist means that the the art may be manifested in 3 different states like water; I also have no idea who said this first or based on what experience/authority/teaching/theoretical basis, but if it aids understanding then i guess its OK.
     "In Chen YiRen's writing, he said that Wang De Wei ( of XianYang ) changed LHBF to water fist, later the art was passed to a daoist Yuan-Rong, who practiced it as Yuan Tong Ba Fa
( 元通八法 ). Then LHBF was disseminated to people staying between Sichuan and ShaanXi; especially among the people with surname Ye ( ) and
Li
(). Later Yang Jing Qun of Fang Shang ( 房山杨景群 ) used (this type of) Xin Yi Liu He, to treat the sick, and changed its name to 先天十二势. so you see, actually LHBF have many names before; but Gm Chen's writing did stress that many passed LHBF master were 心意正宗 (authentic school of Xin Yi). [ Note: the Chinese characters do not translate to nor allude to xing-yi exercise; hearts' intent or central ideas of genuine-correct school-sect is the correct translation.]

     The practical aspect of Liuhe bafa as is related to combat has been called "Water Boxing". This name was adopted by early generations who discovered the greater depths of the art. The common perception of the name Water Boxing is that Liuhe bafa moves smoothly as if one were floating in water. This is a misconception however and quite misleading from the true meaning. The actual concept of Water Boxing refers to the 3 States of Water; solid, liquid and gas. This can hold many meanings but essentially refers to not only ones level of progression and ability in the style but to their application of it as well. Moving against oncoming force and overpowering the opponent is an application of the solid state, moving with oncoming force (different from yielding) is an application of the liquid state, and avoiding the exchange of force all together is an application of the gas state. This water method is a very important practice of Liuhe bafa and its knowledge and application show true depth in the internal arts. In short, Water Boxing is a stage or element of Liuhebafa, not an alternative name nor a separate art.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7798&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=75e5a547de2fd79cc29108a0768f9251

NOTE : Author Khan Foxx, refers to water-boxing as having possible 5-states, which water does possesses.

Supportive data is in my publication